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IMDB rating: 5.80 Plot: The police have three bookies under surveillance, but they escape and set up shop elsewhere. By chance, one of the police finds them; instead of turning them in, he demands money that his brother, now a suicide, had lost to them. An odd guy named Leon, not entirely compus mentus, knows one of the bookies, brings them a tip on a sure thing, and they bet the farm. Meanwhile, Leon has befriended a kid in the next apartment whose mom is abused by her husband, who himself is carrying on some mysterious thievery. The cop, the bookies, the thief, his wife, and Leon’s mistakes and good heart all come together in an ending with murder and money. |
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Christians: This is something I do not understand.?
I’ve been an atheist since I was very young. But I’ve always had a great amount of respect for religion and fascination with it. However recently as I study religion more and more, and listen to my many Christian friends explanations of it, I seem to be having less and less respect for it. At first I thought, well I don’t believe in the whole God thing, but I like the fact that it is filled with good fables about how to be a good person. But as I’ve looked more and more into it, it has become clear to me that it doesn’t provide a good moral compass. That in fact it condones and encourages cruelty, hate, and evil. And discourages wonderfully beautiful things such as love, turning expressive acts of it into something to be ashamed of.
Why would a loving creator, ask Abraham to murder his son? Why does he ask that we give up our love and care for one another for worship and trust to Him?
Why would a loving creator not allow billions of people into heaven so they must suffer for an eternity just because they didn’t believe the right religion, or any religion at the time of their death?
Why would a loving creator encourage the killing of others?
Here are my sources.
Who should Christians kill?
* Homosexuals (Lev.20:13, Rom.1:26-32)
* Adulterers (Lev.20:10, Deut.22:22)
* Disobedient children (Deut.21:20-21, Lev.20:9, Exod.21:15)
* Women who are not virgins on their wedding night (Deut.22:13-21)
* All non-Christians (parable told by Christ - Luke.19:27)
* Those accused of wickedness by at least two people (Deut.17:2-7)
* Anyone who works on the Sabbath (Exod.35:2-3, Num.15:32-6) (not even to kindle a fire, and no exclusion for ambulance drivers)
Women
* It is shameful for a woman to speak in church (1Cor.14:34-5)
* A man must OK his wife?s words if they are to have force (Num.30:8)
* A woman must not teach or hold authority over a man (1Tim.2:12)
* Lot saves the messengers from the men of Sodom by offering up his virgin daughters to ?do to them as you please? (Gen.19:8) Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man (Moses - Num.31:17-8)
Slavery
* God supports slavery (Lev.25:44-6, Exod.21:2-8, Eph.6:5, Col.3:22)
* Instructions on how to sell your daughter as a slave (Exod.21:7-8)
* When to give your slaves severe or light beatings (Luke.12:42-8)
* OK to beat slaves only if they don?t die within 2 days (Exod.21:20-1)
* How to mark your slave: drive an awl through its ear (Deut.15:17)
Marriage
* It?s best if all people remain unmarried. Marriage is a lesser-of-two-evils compromise for Christians too weak to resist their sexual urges, for it is better to marry than to burn. (Paul - 1Cor.7:1-2, 8-9, 25-6, 38)
* The rapist of an unwed woman must buy her and make her his wife (apparently a far more ‘holy’ union than a genuine, loving same-sex relationship) - Deut.22:28-9
Justice
* If a man suspects his wife of cheating he can serve her a cursed drink; if she becomes deformed, then that proves her guilt (Num.5:12-31)
* 42 children killed by bears for calling a prophet baldy (2King.2:23-4)
* OK to beat your children with a rod - it won’t kill them (Prov.23:13-4)
* God commits, orders, or endorses every form of atrocity known to man (pretty much pick a page of the Old Testament at random)
Do the Old Testament laws still apply?
* Every jot and tittle (Christ Matt.5:17-9)
I’ll do what I can:
1. God was testing Abraham. He’d already told Abraham that Sarah would bear him a son that would be the father of nations. So when He told Abraham to go and sacrifice Isaac, Abraham did as directed, believing that God would somehow still keep His promise through Isaac … either by saving him or bringing him back to life. God knew the whole time that Abraham would obey Him, but it was still a test. Before Abraham went through with it, God told him to stop and sacrifice instead the lamb that God already had prepared.
2. God does not ask us to give up our love for one another to worship Him; He asks us to love and care for one another, in addition to worshipping Him.
3. God doesn’t advocate one religion over another. God created us, and all that He asks in return is that we acknowledge that He is the one and only Creator. He doesn’t care if you are Jew or Gentile, Catholic or Baptist, Muslim or Mormon. He doesn’t care if you worship Him as Jehovah or as the Great Spirit … as long as you love Him and appreciate all that He has done for you.
4. Not sure how I can explain the killing in the Bible in a way in which you would be satisfied with the explanation. In the end, God sent Jesus to die for our sins; and during the course of Jesus’ ministry, He did not advocate killing. Far from it, He challenged all of the people who were trying to stone the adulteress to throw that first stone only if they were without sin. By saying that, and by knowing that He was the only one there who was without sin, He stopped the people from killing the adulteress.
5. All that you have outlined no longer applies. At Jesus’ birth, death and resurrection, there was no other penalty to be paid for sin. When Jesus died on the cross, He descended first into Hell, where He delivered the souls of all who had died in the Old Testament without ever having the chance for salvation. This means (among others) Adam and Eve, the first sinners, Cain, the first murderer, and all those who had been washed away in the Great Flood of Noah’s time.
6. Paul was giving his own opinions on a lot of subjects. As far as I know, he never once said that God said this, or that Jesus said that. Paul, if I’m remembering correctly, would’ve rather everybody to be single and celibate like him. He felt that, if you just had to have sex, then it would be better for you to do it under the sanctity of marriage. Remember, Samson wasn’t married to Delilah when he was sleeping with her, and he was still God’s annointed.
I think that your Christian friends can probably answer your questions a lot better than any of us on Answers can. If not, it couldn’t hurt to continue reading the Bible for better understanding, and to visit a few churches or temples of your choice. It doesn’t matter what denomination it is, but you’d probably get a better feel of Christian beliefs if you were to visit churches of all denominations.
Jewels | Dec 17, 2009
That’s a really nicely compiled list. I don’t even think Evilbible.com has a clear list like that. Star for yoU!
churchofatheism.com | Dec 17, 2009
its a fairy story.
Leigh B | Dec 17, 2009
You are not going to get an answer here. You will only get insult or some other spin. If not a quote that is completely irrelevant to what you are asking. Good luck, but don’t hold your breath.
Je | Dec 17, 2009
The old Testament is not supposed to be followed anymore. I?m confused about a lot of this stuff too but each time I come up agains something while studying that I don?t quite understand or have a super hard time agreeing with, I usually end up coming to terms with what it means to me.
A lady | Dec 17, 2009
The Old Testament laws apply only to Jews.
Orthodox Christianity looks at the Old Testament as "prophecy that has been fulfilled."
I suggest you consult with either a "Greek" Orthodox or Roman Catholic priest in your questions regarding the New Testament.
Smitty | Dec 17, 2009
All the same questions I had before I started studying the Bible not just reading it.
papa G | Dec 17, 2009
its not the things written in the Bible that put me off (i don`t believe it was ever meant to be taken in the literal sense)
its the Christians themselves ( some of them not all )
there is no way i would associate myself with people who think they have the right to threaten any one who doesn’t share their belief with "Burning in Hell" or even worse accusing them of worshiping Satan
mariasda | Dec 17, 2009
you really have done your research, attaboy (and i really mean it, i have a serious face on, if you cant see it). Morals are defined by the times, what was good then is bad now and vice-versa. the important thing is to look beyond the details in leviticus and deutoronomy and focus on the important stuff, like the call for charity, cleanliness, peace, and justice. I think the Christian gospels are the best at communicating those abstracts that got confuzzled by the mistranslations and the changing times.
Dont forget that the OT was written for a group of nomads spread throughout the Fertile Crescent. there was a sense of order and strictness that had to be established. trying to apply them to society nowadays is like trying to fit an american plug in a european outlet, or diesel in a petrol engine. Most of the laws back then were made to preserve the society and keep people nice (as in kind) and healthy. In fact, many of the laws, when taken with a grain of salt, match those morals you have.
The point I’m trying to make is that the religion is good at its core, but its been covered with all the muck from its past. If you can look past that, you can see how good it is.
Captain Jack | Dec 17, 2009
Why would a loving creator, ask Abraham to murder his son?
—
Because we are to have more loyalty to God than to anyone else in this world. Notice God did not let him go through with it. Notice also that God was willing to give his own son in sacrifice for humans…
Why does he ask that we give up our love and care for one another for worship and trust to Him?
—
No. Not true. Part of worshiping God is to love and care for one another. Remember that part where Jesus says "whatever you have done for the least of these brothers of mine, you have done for me"?
Why would a loving creator not allow billions of people into heaven so they must suffer for an eternity just because they didn’t believe the right religion, or any religion at the time of their death?
—-
It’s not about beliefs but about Sin. Sin is behavior that is abhorrent to God and will cause pain and suffering if allowed to continue for all eternity. We all have sinned, it is only those who admit this and seek God’s help and who do not try to justify themselves to God who he forgives and allows to be cleansed by the blood of Christ.
Why would a loving creator encourage the killing of others?
—
Part of having a healthy community is to remove those who persist in harming other people.
Who should Christians kill?
—
For your verses below, I think you meant to say Jews. We do not live under a theocracy, we do not have the law of God as our national law like the Ancient Israelites. However, the moral law still applies to us. God said the soul that sins must die. We all deserve to die because we have offended the lord. Unless we accept Jesus’s death on the cross as payment for our sins, we will have to pay the penalty ourselves.
You are reading the law but ignoring the very arguments Jesus made against misapplying it to put the law over common sense and decency and love.
Women
—
It’s interesting for you to pick and choose like this yet completely ignore all the strong women in the Bible who God used to bring about great changes in Israel such as Hannah and Ruth, and Mary! It seems you have a twisted perspective on what the Bible teaches and you’re just trying to affirm your own beliefs instead of reading and understanding what the Bible teaches. (That is known as confirmation bias)
Slavery
—
Again you are completely ignoring how Paul wrote to a slave master begging him to free his slave who was a brother in Christ. You’re ignoring passages that talk about equality and freedom. You’re ignoring the fact that freedom from slavery was how the Hebrews started their national life, as freedmen from Egypt… On purpose?
Marriage
—
I fail to see the downside of what you posted here. You just don’t understand why these verses were given, to protect women and to spur on devotion to God.
Do the Old Testament laws still apply?
—-
* Every jot and tittle (Christ Matt.5:17-9)
How do you explain this then?
"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
Colossians 2:14
You can’t explain it I bet because you never read it. You have a very shallow understanding of the Bible yet you feel justified in slandering it and condemning it?
Morganie5 | Dec 17, 2009
Why do yu think He gave His only Son to die for us? Because He doesn t loves us?
Where in the Bible God punished a woman if she said a good thing or a good advice? Mothers teach their sons about God more than men.
We must love each other but not more than we love God. God can kill and bring back again to life every time He wants too causing no suffering cause He is God. If you believe in the right way to God and trust Him you weill believe all the things. God did not let Abraham to kill his son. It was only a try.to see Abraham s faith.
About marriage , it is better to stay unmarried and not to have any kind of sex.But if you can not help your self not to satisfy your sexual desires in any way , get married and make children. It is ok. God doesn t blame married people. You do.
About the cconsequencesof rape. in that time prisons did not exist. God wanted to make man more rresponsible That is all. The woman was not obliged to marry the raper.
If God is right and He is right He has the right to punish us if we are not right. We owe Him our life.If He would be mean all the people would be in hell now cause all of us are sinners. Is God mean?
The Old Testament aplays except one rule. It is not teeth for teeth any more, it is ,, Love each other as I loved you,, SO NO MORE KILLINGS. Jesus Himself stoped those punishments with death. Read the Bible. We are forgiven if we repent. Some of us have a life time to repent and we don t want to. Is not that mean from our side? Why do you think only Old Testament aplays and not the New one too? It is in the Bible that all the Bible is aplaying. Read it carefull and patient. All the best!
Nicoleta T | Dec 17, 2009
Hi there, first let me assure you, you’re not the only one that felt/feels this way. Many have in the past. None of this is as it seems. And no, God did not allow Abraham to kill his son, but yet, he stopped him. God had a reason for it Matt. And You have to look at this as well, Abraham’s son became a follower of God too, and he was the line for Gods son Jesus to be born. It’s a wonderful and deep story once you start understanding it, not just reading it. Oh, one more thing, to the young lady that said the tales of Burning in Hell, I understand that too. My mom use to be a Pentecostal, and did the tongue thing, and ran up and down the isles at the church falling out. Scared me half to death. Anyway, I was the first one at the age of 8 to study the Bible and the last one that has been trying to be a Christian in my family to take the plunge and get baptized, in which I left for 7 yrs. Not because of the beliefs but, because I was not, and will not be a hypocrite, if I can’t give all, I give nothing. Matt, if you’d be so kind as to contact me, I’d love to explain things just a little bit further, more than what can be explained here on Q&A. If you’d rather not speak with me, please, I do plea, just to give a chance, not pushing, just a chance to put all these questions to rest and in order. My messenger is fluffysister@yahoo.com and you can email me there as well. If not, please find one of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to chat with online here. They can explain as well. Thanks so much for your question, it’s been great reading all your concerns and knowing at least you did read the Bible and wondered. That is more than most of the so called Christians that bash people, put them down, or are just rude do, or say they have done.
Take care, and be well. I hope I hear from you, if not, please contact a Jehovah’s Witnesses and ask them these same questions.
Lee
Fluffy
loobs;;;
Herman Carney